1 00:00:20,750 --> 00:00:09,510 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:23,580 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:27,730 show number 88 for the 25th of jun 2010 4 00:00:32,609 --> 00:00:29,830 Richard Saunders here with you from my 5 00:00:35,369 --> 00:00:32,619 little studio in Sydney Australia on 6 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:35,379 this week's show we chatted tim bailey 7 00:00:40,950 --> 00:00:37,930 from the Colorado humanists who was 8 00:00:43,770 --> 00:00:40,960 visiting Sydney just recently and after 9 00:00:47,150 --> 00:00:43,780 that we have a clip from dr. ray and I 10 00:00:50,369 --> 00:00:47,160 appearing on radio 2 GB here in Sydney 11 00:00:53,100 --> 00:00:50,379 where we get a call from somebody called 12 00:00:57,420 --> 00:00:53,110 Jack who tells us all about magnetic 13 00:00:59,910 --> 00:00:57,430 therapy and reflexology after that it's 14 00:01:01,770 --> 00:00:59,920 dr. Richie reports where she fills us in 15 00:01:04,350 --> 00:01:01,780 on the latest information from the UK 16 00:01:06,930 --> 00:01:04,360 about the early day motions and 17 00:01:09,060 --> 00:01:06,940 homeopathy thank you for those people 18 00:01:10,859 --> 00:01:09,070 who have recently sent us donations to 19 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:10,869 help us keep the show ticking over we do 20 00:01:15,420 --> 00:01:13,810 appreciate it we really do and thank you 21 00:01:17,340 --> 00:01:15,430 to those people writing to me saying 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:17,350 that there they will be at the amazing 23 00:01:23,460 --> 00:01:20,410 meeting in Las Vegas and we'll catch up 24 00:01:27,919 --> 00:01:23,470 looking forward to that enormously but 25 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:27,929 for now sit back have a nice cup of 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:45,310 tim bailey is a corporate trainer 27 00:01:51,350 --> 00:01:48,210 educator and Amber to skeptic and 28 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:51,360 ammeter atheist and all over ammeter 29 00:01:55,730 --> 00:01:53,970 human being when he is not traveling 30 00:01:57,980 --> 00:01:55,740 around the world to conduct training 31 00:02:00,530 --> 00:01:57,990 classes for his clients or meeting fine 32 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:00,540 skeptics and atheists he can be found in 33 00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:02,850 denver colorado forming secular 34 00:02:08,930 --> 00:02:06,000 ceremonies as celebrating times of 35 00:02:11,380 --> 00:02:08,940 change and acting like he is the vice 36 00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:11,390 president of the humanists of colorado 37 00:02:27,020 --> 00:02:14,310 he can be found online at various sites 38 00:02:30,170 --> 00:02:27,030 under the call letters TC s g r v well 39 00:02:34,010 --> 00:02:30,180 what can I say listeners I'm here right 40 00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:34,020 on Sydney Harbour on my left hand side 41 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:35,910 is the beautiful opera house hold it up 42 00:02:40,220 --> 00:02:37,770 on my right hand side over my shoulder 43 00:02:42,110 --> 00:02:40,230 it's the Sydney Harbour Bridge lit up in 44 00:02:45,140 --> 00:02:42,120 the cities sort of it directly in front 45 00:02:48,110 --> 00:02:45,150 of me this is a place I've brought my 46 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:48,120 guest this evening tim bailey hello Tim 47 00:02:52,220 --> 00:02:50,490 hello how are you tonight I'm doing 48 00:02:55,130 --> 00:02:52,230 particularly well we just had a lovely 49 00:02:57,380 --> 00:02:55,140 beer in a belgium beer belgian beer 50 00:02:59,080 --> 00:02:57,390 house hell Jim be a house and I've 51 00:03:02,690 --> 00:02:59,090 thought I'd bring you down to one of the 52 00:03:04,220 --> 00:03:02,700 most gorgeous spots here on Sydney 53 00:03:05,690 --> 00:03:04,230 Harbour to have a chat with you I'm 54 00:03:08,150 --> 00:03:05,700 quite impressed with it to your sites 55 00:03:11,540 --> 00:03:08,160 are very good and I can see some 56 00:03:13,699 --> 00:03:11,550 architecture that I haven't anticipated 57 00:03:17,090 --> 00:03:13,709 plus the Opera House is over to my left 58 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:17,100 and that's quite a sight to see so I'm 59 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:18,450 looking forward to exploring that a 60 00:03:23,420 --> 00:03:20,970 little bit more tomorrow and I think 61 00:03:25,250 --> 00:03:23,430 we'll probably get a fairy 02 and some 62 00:03:27,710 --> 00:03:25,260 water lapping and lovely sound effects 63 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:27,720 coming along as we would have our chat 64 00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:29,970 now you're in Sydney of course at the 65 00:03:34,310 --> 00:03:32,070 moment on business onion my career is 66 00:03:38,690 --> 00:03:34,320 within adult education in the sense that 67 00:03:40,940 --> 00:03:38,700 my predominant line of work is that I 68 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:40,950 will get up in front of classes and 69 00:03:45,620 --> 00:03:42,690 train them in database software 70 00:03:47,290 --> 00:03:45,630 solutions but also to I decided to take 71 00:03:50,710 --> 00:03:47,300 a little bit of a site 72 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:50,720 trip in my festivities in or activities 73 00:03:56,260 --> 00:03:54,170 and I also perform secular weddings with 74 00:03:57,940 --> 00:03:56,270 in secular weddings in Colorado secular 75 00:04:00,180 --> 00:03:57,950 weddings in Colorado how does that work 76 00:04:03,490 --> 00:04:00,190 exactly how does that work legally in 77 00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:03,500 Colorado just the laws are not strict in 78 00:04:09,340 --> 00:04:05,830 the sense that you have to be a 79 00:04:13,060 --> 00:04:09,350 clergyman in order to perform a wedding 80 00:04:16,449 --> 00:04:13,070 yeah you can be a somebody who actually 81 00:04:18,940 --> 00:04:16,459 is either a justice of the peace or a 82 00:04:21,699 --> 00:04:18,950 third party who can actually perform a 83 00:04:23,170 --> 00:04:21,709 wedding for anybody within the colorado 84 00:04:26,860 --> 00:04:23,180 area did you have to go through a 85 00:04:29,740 --> 00:04:26,870 process to register for this yes I did I 86 00:04:33,220 --> 00:04:29,750 am a certified celebrant be the 87 00:04:35,350 --> 00:04:33,230 celebrant society a part of the American 88 00:04:37,750 --> 00:04:35,360 Humanist Association Wow within the 89 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:37,760 United States of America and you finding 90 00:04:43,210 --> 00:04:40,090 that's a popular thing for people to do 91 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:43,220 at first I anticipated that it would 92 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:45,290 just be a side venture you know just 93 00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:48,770 maybe one or two weddings a year but my 94 00:04:52,930 --> 00:04:50,300 wife and I had found that we've had 95 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:52,940 several people that were interested in 96 00:04:59,100 --> 00:04:55,250 our services not just for weddings but 97 00:05:02,200 --> 00:04:59,110 for secular celebrations to mark say 98 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:02,210 baby naming ceremonies coming of age 99 00:05:07,210 --> 00:05:04,970 ceremony icings they wanted to have 100 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:07,220 ceremonies in which did not have any 101 00:05:13,510 --> 00:05:09,890 religious influence whatsoever they 102 00:05:16,230 --> 00:05:13,520 either were from a family that religion 103 00:05:19,900 --> 00:05:16,240 was never a big part of their lives or 104 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:19,910 the individuals who are getting married 105 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:21,710 are from different religious traditions 106 00:05:28,570 --> 00:05:25,370 I see and so they did not want to have 107 00:05:30,159 --> 00:05:28,580 religion being a factor in their 108 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:30,169 weddings that were going to cause either 109 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:34,970 conflict or to be an area in which would 110 00:05:38,530 --> 00:05:36,650 detract from the fact that they're 111 00:05:43,060 --> 00:05:38,540 celebrating getting together and having 112 00:05:44,650 --> 00:05:43,070 a wedding Brian and so and so my wife 113 00:05:47,790 --> 00:05:44,660 and I put together a company called 114 00:05:50,170 --> 00:05:47,800 celebrating times of change right in 115 00:05:52,180 --> 00:05:50,180 which I imagine is office on the 116 00:05:55,010 --> 00:05:52,190 internet right yes it is so we have a 117 00:05:57,050 --> 00:05:55,020 website at celebrating times com right 118 00:05:59,150 --> 00:05:57,060 with in Colorado we've had some 119 00:06:01,400 --> 00:05:59,160 individuals who already have signed up 120 00:06:04,309 --> 00:06:01,410 and had decided to have their weddings 121 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:04,319 with us and our goal is to basically 122 00:06:10,999 --> 00:06:08,490 provide for them the most memorable and 123 00:06:13,909 --> 00:06:11,009 beautiful wedding ceremony one that in 124 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:13,919 fact I sit down with the clients and say 125 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:15,810 what would you like for your ceremony 126 00:06:20,719 --> 00:06:18,210 and say I've get to know them a little 127 00:06:24,409 --> 00:06:20,729 bit more and then we draft up and write 128 00:06:26,390 --> 00:06:24,419 a ceremony just for them Wow but that's 129 00:06:28,790 --> 00:06:26,400 that's one of the things that we decided 130 00:06:31,460 --> 00:06:28,800 to do we say well it doesn't have to be 131 00:06:33,770 --> 00:06:31,470 religious yes it could be just 132 00:06:36,980 --> 00:06:33,780 meaningful something not specific to 133 00:06:39,589 --> 00:06:36,990 them and then after that making it 134 00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:39,599 uniquely theirs writing something in you 135 00:06:44,710 --> 00:06:43,110 can then afterwards we perform it that's 136 00:06:47,420 --> 00:06:44,720 fantastic now what can you tell me about 137 00:06:50,390 --> 00:06:47,430 the history as far as you know it of the 138 00:06:52,730 --> 00:06:50,400 the humanist movement in Colorado um 139 00:06:55,189 --> 00:06:52,740 diem the humanistic Colorado has been 140 00:06:58,279 --> 00:06:55,199 around since the 80s mm-hmm when I first 141 00:07:00,649 --> 00:06:58,289 moved to Colorado in 2003 one of the 142 00:07:02,870 --> 00:07:00,659 goals that I had was to get involved 143 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:02,880 with the secular organizations and the 144 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:04,530 skeptical organizations within the 145 00:07:09,620 --> 00:07:08,250 colorado area one of the first ones i 146 00:07:11,959 --> 00:07:09,630 came across was the humanists of 147 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:11,969 colorado i attended a few of their 148 00:07:18,409 --> 00:07:15,210 meetings was which was at a local 149 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:18,419 unitarian universalist church okay isn't 150 00:07:24,260 --> 00:07:22,710 and then from there i met several of the 151 00:07:25,670 --> 00:07:24,270 individuals who were leading the 152 00:07:30,019 --> 00:07:25,680 organization as well as some of the 153 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:30,029 other members and after about six months 154 00:07:35,839 --> 00:07:32,930 to a year i found myself on the board 155 00:07:38,689 --> 00:07:35,849 and then quickly after that i found 156 00:07:41,499 --> 00:07:38,699 myself president of the board oh wow and 157 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:41,509 i had been president of the board until 158 00:07:47,510 --> 00:07:45,330 last year june of last year when i had 159 00:07:49,129 --> 00:07:47,520 passed a baton over to a gentleman by 160 00:07:50,779 --> 00:07:49,139 the name of Richard Burke who is not a 161 00:07:52,790 --> 00:07:50,789 president and I'm currently the vice 162 00:07:55,070 --> 00:07:52,800 president of the board of the getting us 163 00:07:56,870 --> 00:07:55,080 a Colorado now you're a Globetrotter of 164 00:07:57,650 --> 00:07:56,880 course as you are mentioning before you 165 00:08:03,560 --> 00:07:57,660 you 166 00:08:05,810 --> 00:08:03,570 Europe especially mm-hmm and to New 167 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:05,820 Zealand and I'm so glad that you drop me 168 00:08:10,550 --> 00:08:08,850 a line to say what could we do could we 169 00:08:12,380 --> 00:08:10,560 meet up and you're coming to skeptics in 170 00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:12,390 the pub next week yes I'm really looking 171 00:08:16,490 --> 00:08:14,400 forward to that then one of the things 172 00:08:19,870 --> 00:08:16,500 in which I attempt to do when I go on 173 00:08:21,740 --> 00:08:19,880 trips is I look online to see what 174 00:08:24,050 --> 00:08:21,750 organizations are within the areas in 175 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:24,060 which I go to for instance when I went 176 00:08:27,860 --> 00:08:25,650 to South Carolina I said well I'm going 177 00:08:29,690 --> 00:08:27,870 to look up what's there and I found 178 00:08:31,190 --> 00:08:29,700 secular humanists of the low country and 179 00:08:34,250 --> 00:08:31,200 had a great time with it yes there yeah 180 00:08:36,589 --> 00:08:34,260 and when I was coming here I said well 181 00:08:38,089 --> 00:08:36,599 what's going on so I found that yep 182 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:38,099 skeptics of the pub was going to be on 183 00:08:44,450 --> 00:08:41,010 the last Thursday right before i was to 184 00:08:47,570 --> 00:08:44,460 leave which is the thursday on coming up 185 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:47,580 in fact that'll be the first of june 186 00:08:51,770 --> 00:08:49,770 first of july here in Sydney so 187 00:08:53,990 --> 00:08:51,780 listeners in Sydney come along and you 188 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:54,000 can meet him in person no I would love 189 00:09:00,560 --> 00:08:57,330 to meet you up and then I fly back home 190 00:09:01,850 --> 00:09:00,570 on the second of July oh so first thing 191 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:01,860 in the morning first thing in the 192 00:09:07,460 --> 00:09:06,090 morning yes however I am completely able 193 00:09:09,170 --> 00:09:07,470 to stay awake for the entire evening 194 00:09:10,940 --> 00:09:09,180 because I'm gonna be sleeping on them 195 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:10,950 playing on the way back home to Colorado 196 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:15,570 that might not be a bad idea so I'm I'm 197 00:09:19,580 --> 00:09:17,610 really pleased to hear that you make the 198 00:09:21,590 --> 00:09:19,590 effort to see what's going on in the 199 00:09:23,630 --> 00:09:21,600 local area have you had any other good 200 00:09:25,310 --> 00:09:23,640 experiences without the meeting local 201 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:25,320 skeptics and 202 00:09:29,540 --> 00:09:27,330 like-minded people I've had plenty of 203 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:29,550 splendid experiences I've even spent 204 00:09:34,610 --> 00:09:32,310 some time with the Minnesota atheists oh 205 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:34,620 yeah and some of the folks up in 206 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:37,370 Minneapolis st. Paul Minnesota area 207 00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:42,090 August Berkshire some of the meetups 208 00:09:46,460 --> 00:09:43,860 that they've had up there I've gotten 209 00:09:48,770 --> 00:09:46,470 together at an ethiopian restaurant good 210 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:48,780 heavens with them and had some great 211 00:09:54,140 --> 00:09:50,850 conversations with some folks that I 212 00:09:55,940 --> 00:09:54,150 even converse with afterwards online for 213 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:55,950 several months afterwards right now you 214 00:10:01,010 --> 00:09:58,050 go to the UK I have you been there yet 215 00:10:04,370 --> 00:10:01,020 yes I've been to I spent two weeks in 216 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:04,380 the Bristol area wristlet I've also had 217 00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:06,050 a chance to get down to portishead I 218 00:10:12,170 --> 00:10:09,270 also took a tour that took me to 219 00:10:14,390 --> 00:10:12,180 Stonehenge Avebury a couple of the 220 00:10:17,420 --> 00:10:14,400 little villages and of course since i'm 221 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:17,430 on facebook as well as many of my nieces 222 00:10:22,070 --> 00:10:20,010 and nephews the first things that they 223 00:10:25,010 --> 00:10:22,080 wanted to see is i want pictures of 224 00:10:27,770 --> 00:10:25,020 Stonehenge with you it's Donuts I said 225 00:10:30,170 --> 00:10:27,780 okay I'll do that and since they also 226 00:10:32,390 --> 00:10:30,180 were quite a bit of fans of harry potter 227 00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:32,400 amongst some of my nieces and nephews I 228 00:10:37,130 --> 00:10:34,800 made sure that I got my pictures taken 229 00:10:38,450 --> 00:10:37,140 at some of this located locales that 230 00:10:40,490 --> 00:10:38,460 they had some of the scenes from the 231 00:10:42,230 --> 00:10:40,500 movie oh well I must admit I've been 232 00:10:44,180 --> 00:10:42,240 guilty of doing sort of similar things 233 00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:44,190 myself the first time I went to London I 234 00:10:51,410 --> 00:10:47,910 went to Abby roads next time I go to 235 00:10:53,870 --> 00:10:51,420 London I have to do the same yeah at the 236 00:10:56,450 --> 00:10:53,880 time for me it was it was a must it was 237 00:10:58,760 --> 00:10:56,460 a must thing to do but no I the UK is 238 00:11:01,490 --> 00:10:58,770 that just crawling the skeptics I these 239 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:01,500 days they're doing a wonderful job this 240 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:03,330 podcast right left and centre and there 241 00:11:07,929 --> 00:11:05,330 are meetup moves the skeptics in the pub 242 00:11:11,079 --> 00:11:07,939 all over the country in fact 243 00:11:13,869 --> 00:11:11,089 the British Isles yeah and when I was in 244 00:11:16,179 --> 00:11:13,879 Bristol I didn't get much of a chance to 245 00:11:18,210 --> 00:11:16,189 do much exploring because i was working 246 00:11:21,099 --> 00:11:18,220 quite a bit during those two weeks 247 00:11:24,460 --> 00:11:21,109 however i did take that one tour that 248 00:11:27,969 --> 00:11:24,470 got me out of the city i am going to be 249 00:11:29,739 --> 00:11:27,979 going back to Bristol sometime within 250 00:11:31,719 --> 00:11:29,749 the next year I'm just not entirely sure 251 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:31,729 when right but I hope to spend more time 252 00:11:35,499 --> 00:11:33,529 in London when I'm able to go do you 253 00:11:37,629 --> 00:11:35,509 think you'll be visiting australia 254 00:11:40,509 --> 00:11:37,639 sydney more frequent well I certainly 255 00:11:43,929 --> 00:11:40,519 hope so in fact if the pattern continues 256 00:11:45,639 --> 00:11:43,939 with previous experience all most likely 257 00:11:47,379 --> 00:11:45,649 will be here within the next year that 258 00:11:49,779 --> 00:11:47,389 would be fantastic but I understand you 259 00:11:51,429 --> 00:11:49,789 can't quite manage to come to the 260 00:11:53,829 --> 00:11:51,439 amazing meeting in Australia this year 261 00:11:56,769 --> 00:11:53,839 no in fact I was attempting to line up 262 00:11:59,769 --> 00:11:56,779 the events so that I my trip here was 263 00:12:02,559 --> 00:11:59,779 going to line up and I was really giving 264 00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:02,569 hints and saying you know this would be 265 00:12:06,699 --> 00:12:04,639 the best time yeah or me to get over 266 00:12:08,829 --> 00:12:06,709 there however they wanted to training 267 00:12:12,099 --> 00:12:08,839 session much earlier than that so that 268 00:12:14,109 --> 00:12:12,109 I'm here now and unless I'm lucky I'm 269 00:12:15,969 --> 00:12:14,119 probably not going to be able to return 270 00:12:18,039 --> 00:12:15,979 during that well I mean it is not too 271 00:12:20,289 --> 00:12:18,049 bad i mean it is winter time here and 272 00:12:22,839 --> 00:12:20,299 normally where we're sitting at the 273 00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:22,849 moment it would be a bit too a bit too 274 00:12:27,369 --> 00:12:24,769 cold but it's just we're very lucky 275 00:12:29,529 --> 00:12:27,379 tonight is just beautiful but the moon 276 00:12:31,329 --> 00:12:29,539 is out yeah he stars around oh there it 277 00:12:32,499 --> 00:12:31,339 is it's the folks behind clouds but now 278 00:12:34,359 --> 00:12:32,509 it's come back and see the southern 279 00:12:36,659 --> 00:12:34,369 hemisphere stars that I don't usually 280 00:12:39,939 --> 00:12:36,669 get to see during the well you know why 281 00:12:42,009 --> 00:12:39,949 correctly it above us right now those 282 00:12:44,139 --> 00:12:42,019 days you can see yes I that's the 283 00:12:46,419 --> 00:12:44,149 Southern Cross yep that's the Southern 284 00:12:50,379 --> 00:12:46,429 Cross that it's the clouds the towns of 285 00:12:53,079 --> 00:12:50,389 pardon just for us you can see the the 286 00:12:54,879 --> 00:12:53,089 cross shape mmm those four stars and to 287 00:12:56,889 --> 00:12:54,889 their left of the to what we call the 288 00:12:58,809 --> 00:12:56,899 point is here and there it is that's 289 00:13:02,169 --> 00:12:58,819 nothing console these are stars I can't 290 00:13:03,939 --> 00:13:02,179 see from Denver mmm however when I'm up 291 00:13:08,349 --> 00:13:03,949 in the mountains in Denver I'd love to 292 00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:08,359 gaze at the stars and one of my early 293 00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:10,639 childhood experiences was with the 294 00:13:14,799 --> 00:13:12,889 telescope and getting involved in 295 00:13:16,070 --> 00:13:14,809 astronomy in fact it was astronomy that 296 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:16,080 got me involved in 297 00:13:19,550 --> 00:13:17,850 my interest in science we were just 298 00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:19,560 having a quick chat about it earlier 299 00:13:23,090 --> 00:13:21,060 because I took you to what we call our 300 00:13:24,770 --> 00:13:23,100 customs house here where there's a giant 301 00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:24,780 three-dimensional model of downtown 302 00:13:29,660 --> 00:13:27,720 Sydney which is most impressive and I 303 00:13:32,630 --> 00:13:29,670 was pointing out the observatory to you 304 00:13:35,390 --> 00:13:32,640 and if you look over your shoulder your 305 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:35,400 right shoulder behind that building and 306 00:13:40,010 --> 00:13:37,770 behind the leader and harbour bridge is 307 00:13:43,370 --> 00:13:40,020 the observatory so right very far from 308 00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:43,380 we were sitting at the moment okay you 309 00:13:47,540 --> 00:13:44,880 have together I'm definitely gonna have 310 00:13:50,570 --> 00:13:47,550 to go see that because i've also been to 311 00:13:52,670 --> 00:13:50,580 the Peak Observatory in southern Arizona 312 00:13:55,310 --> 00:13:52,680 he one time just to visit that and see 313 00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:55,320 how that was but but it was astronomy 314 00:13:59,240 --> 00:13:56,880 that really piqued my interest in 315 00:14:01,580 --> 00:13:59,250 science well you know that's that's 316 00:14:05,930 --> 00:14:01,590 partly true of myself and I'm sure many 317 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:05,940 of our listeners for me it was things 318 00:14:11,270 --> 00:14:08,570 like Carl Sagan and when she completely 319 00:14:14,030 --> 00:14:11,280 got me hooked when I was about 15 320 00:14:16,010 --> 00:14:14,040 because he was talking about astronomy 321 00:14:18,410 --> 00:14:16,020 and the stars and the planets and i 322 00:14:20,930 --> 00:14:18,420 found this endlessly fan I still do 323 00:14:22,850 --> 00:14:20,940 endlessly fascinating now one of my one 324 00:14:25,010 --> 00:14:22,860 of my first Carl Sagan books that was 325 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:25,020 given to me was broke his brain II and 326 00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:26,850 then one of the last ones that I 327 00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:28,380 obtained was of course to demon haunted 328 00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:31,110 world oh that's me that is like it's a 329 00:14:35,060 --> 00:14:33,510 must-read for any skeptic and it is the 330 00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:35,070 baloney detection kit I've used many 331 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:39,870 times or no well of course how good 332 00:14:44,810 --> 00:14:42,930 friend feel played the bad astronomer 333 00:14:46,250 --> 00:14:44,820 he's from Colorado yes yes and now we 334 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:46,260 were discussing before that there seems 335 00:14:50,690 --> 00:14:48,210 to be a very strong skeptical and 336 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:50,700 secular group and movement in Colorado 337 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:53,130 itself there is and there is the 338 00:14:57,890 --> 00:14:55,890 mile-high skeptics which is a meetup 339 00:15:00,190 --> 00:14:57,900 organization and are several different 340 00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:00,200 individuals involved with that and 341 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:03,120 they're quite well known at least 342 00:15:08,690 --> 00:15:05,370 amongst the secular community within 343 00:15:10,940 --> 00:15:08,700 Colorado there's also the Rocky Mountain 344 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:10,950 Paranormal Research Society I've heard a 345 00:15:16,820 --> 00:15:13,050 lot about that so Backstrom Bonner yes 346 00:15:18,770 --> 00:15:16,830 in fact the program that we had it to 347 00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:18,780 humanists of Colorado about a year and a 348 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:21,030 half ago where we had them come and 349 00:15:26,330 --> 00:15:23,510 speak and do a multimedia presentation 350 00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:26,340 was one of the best and well received 351 00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:29,190 and and best performed programs we ever 352 00:15:35,390 --> 00:15:31,740 had at the humanists Wow I'd love to say 353 00:15:38,530 --> 00:15:35,400 that our members were absolutely and not 354 00:15:41,660 --> 00:15:38,540 only entertained but educated by that 355 00:15:43,340 --> 00:15:41,670 presentation is yes yeah that's one of 356 00:15:46,730 --> 00:15:43,350 my favorites it's such a great name for 357 00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:46,740 an organization to because you would 358 00:15:53,330 --> 00:15:49,040 actually think that okay they explore 359 00:15:58,900 --> 00:15:53,340 paranormal they're gonna tell you about 360 00:16:01,310 --> 00:15:58,910 the ghosts and about to UFO little 361 00:16:03,050 --> 00:16:01,320 that's interesting as a plane going up 362 00:16:05,450 --> 00:16:03,060 ahead but I just noticed in the clouds 363 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:05,460 and their spotlights can you sit there 364 00:16:10,180 --> 00:16:08,010 yester if the spotlights from below 365 00:16:12,890 --> 00:16:10,190 wonder where they're coming from 366 00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:12,900 actually the spotlights could be coming 367 00:16:17,450 --> 00:16:14,820 from darling harbour because every 368 00:16:20,330 --> 00:16:17,460 evening during the last week that I was 369 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:20,340 here they had a large screen in which 370 00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:22,410 they had to live world cup soccer 371 00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:24,660 matches quite possibly yeah that'll be 372 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:27,180 on tonight of course yes and even though 373 00:16:32,030 --> 00:16:29,810 Australia is no longer in the running 374 00:16:33,980 --> 00:16:32,040 unfortunately however New Zealand to 375 00:16:37,060 --> 00:16:33,990 there and New Zealand is out yes and 376 00:16:41,450 --> 00:16:37,070 italy is out idly that's a seraph espejo 377 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:41,460 glass that's up I was also lucky enough 378 00:16:45,290 --> 00:16:43,170 to be with some friends back at the 379 00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:45,300 University of Colorado back in nineteen 380 00:16:51,770 --> 00:16:48,480 ninety some of them from Greece some of 381 00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:51,780 them from Italy who got me so hooked and 382 00:16:56,630 --> 00:16:54,060 roll Cup soccer I've had to watch it 383 00:16:58,340 --> 00:16:56,640 every four years since then that's 384 00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:58,350 that's the only time I really take an 385 00:17:02,990 --> 00:17:00,240 interest in that's what I must say now 386 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:03,000 just behind me now we've got this is one 387 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:05,890 of the little fast ferries 388 00:17:11,819 --> 00:17:08,890 yeah or it is in fact it's i'm not sure 389 00:17:13,260 --> 00:17:11,829 that one goes but behind it and about to 390 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:13,270 pass in front of the opera house is one 391 00:17:18,180 --> 00:17:15,490 of the major commuter fairies off de 392 00:17:20,550 --> 00:17:18,190 manly and that's and a half hour trip 393 00:17:22,910 --> 00:17:20,560 which is a cheap way to see the wonders 394 00:17:25,860 --> 00:17:22,920 of sidney harman there it is now yep 395 00:17:27,630 --> 00:17:25,870 looks so nice at night time too it does 396 00:17:30,060 --> 00:17:27,640 look nice looks like it would be 397 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:30,070 actually a fun trip to take yeah I 398 00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,570 reckon married that like I said it's a 399 00:17:34,830 --> 00:17:33,520 cheap way to see a great deal of the 400 00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:34,840 harbor and you end up at Manly Beach 401 00:17:39,570 --> 00:17:37,420 which is a great place to to visit to 402 00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:39,580 there goes another small one i'm not 403 00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:40,840 sure where that one's off to I've 404 00:17:44,970 --> 00:17:43,240 actually promised all the nieces and 405 00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:44,980 nephews and the family members and other 406 00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:46,630 friends that I'm going to provide for 407 00:17:50,750 --> 00:17:48,190 them many pictures move for this 408 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:50,760 particular trip when i was in england i 409 00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:54,250 joked that I had taken over 500 photos 410 00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:57,370 and I thought it was lying until i found 411 00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:01,840 out i took 526 so i am behind on this 412 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:04,660 trip i actually have to catch up and get 413 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:06,610 at least 500 photos as well now that one 414 00:18:15,340 --> 00:18:12,610 just going pastas now that's a water 415 00:18:17,049 --> 00:18:15,350 taxi I you know okay that's amazing this 416 00:18:19,299 --> 00:18:17,059 looks like a rowing boat with a belt 417 00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:19,309 with a bill hovering it's a camper on it 418 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:22,910 is what I'm trying to do of course is 419 00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:25,130 sell the wonders of Sydney Harbour to 420 00:18:30,130 --> 00:18:27,200 our visitors he'll be here in November 421 00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,140 for the amazing yes and for those of you 422 00:18:34,210 --> 00:18:32,240 who are going to be at an amazing 423 00:18:37,299 --> 00:18:34,220 meeting in november i am quite envious 424 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:37,309 of you because as always i tend to be at 425 00:18:41,950 --> 00:18:40,370 the right place at the wrong time well 426 00:18:43,450 --> 00:18:41,960 I'm sorry I'm concerned you're at the 427 00:18:46,270 --> 00:18:43,460 right place at the right time so I am 428 00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:46,280 and it's it's been such a pleasure to 429 00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:47,870 chat with you and Richard has been a 430 00:18:51,370 --> 00:18:49,760 pleasure to chat with you as well and I 431 00:18:53,890 --> 00:18:51,380 feel honored to actually be able to meet 432 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:53,900 with you thank you that's me and get to 433 00:18:57,340 --> 00:18:56,210 know you personally and all the best for 434 00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:57,350 the rest of your trip in fact what I'll 435 00:19:01,210 --> 00:18:59,120 do is I'll just reach into my backpack 436 00:19:03,970 --> 00:19:01,220 and I'll present you with the latest 437 00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:03,980 issue of our magazine if I can Oh 438 00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:10,920 it's the latest issue of our magazine 439 00:19:14,460 --> 00:19:12,790 the skeptic to the Australian skeptics 440 00:19:16,020 --> 00:19:14,470 so thank you very much be some 441 00:19:18,660 --> 00:19:16,030 interesting reading for you on the plane 442 00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:18,670 or I'll definitely be reading with us on 443 00:19:25,230 --> 00:19:22,480 the plane in fact I am also a subscriber 444 00:19:27,660 --> 00:19:25,240 to the very skeptic magazines within the 445 00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:27,670 United States both the skeptic as well 446 00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:30,160 as The Skeptical Inquirer Ryan on the 447 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:32,590 plane trip here I happen to have read 448 00:19:36,570 --> 00:19:34,690 all the articles and so this will 449 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:36,580 definitely help for the trip on the way 450 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:38,050 home that will tide you I will Jim 451 00:19:55,860 --> 00:19:39,730 Bailey a great pleasure thank you very 452 00:19:57,870 --> 00:19:55,870 much Richard hello I'm Tony Pittman the 453 00:20:01,080 --> 00:19:57,880 presenter of the weekly radio show and 454 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:01,090 podcast reality check broadcast from 455 00:20:05,820 --> 00:20:03,850 here in melbourne australia and if you 456 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:05,830 like listening to the skeptic zone maybe 457 00:20:11,250 --> 00:20:07,690 you'd like to check out reality check 458 00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:11,260 each week we bring you a roundup of LGBT 459 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:14,710 news that's news related to lesbian gay 460 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:18,250 bisexual and transgender issues plus a 461 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:21,970 movie review plus a serious skeptical 462 00:20:28,110 --> 00:20:24,010 analysis of a topic related to 463 00:20:29,490 --> 00:20:28,120 pseudoscience or the paranormal so if it 464 00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:29,500 sounds like it could be right up your 465 00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:33,190 alley visit our website at reality check 466 00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:36,880 online dot net there you can listen 467 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:39,910 online download episodes or subscribe 468 00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:55,640 be wanting a COBOL Jack's on the phone 469 00:20:59,600 --> 00:20:56,880 jack wants to sing the praises of 470 00:21:01,310 --> 00:20:59,610 magnetic products hello jack hello can I 471 00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:01,320 go for how are you very good things 472 00:21:06,650 --> 00:21:03,270 thanks for the call yeah thank you 473 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:06,660 thanks sake of the call look um I've not 474 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:09,530 had many products for over 30 years and 475 00:21:14,810 --> 00:21:12,210 I've done a little reading on it and I 476 00:21:18,170 --> 00:21:14,820 can personally testify myself I had a 477 00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:18,180 very bad knee and I didn't know whether 478 00:21:22,370 --> 00:21:19,980 this magnetic strip was going to work so 479 00:21:24,140 --> 00:21:22,380 it's not like I was sort of convincing 480 00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:24,150 myself mind over matter that will work 481 00:21:30,620 --> 00:21:27,840 and i put on my knee i reckon it took 482 00:21:33,530 --> 00:21:30,630 about a week and at my pain completely 483 00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:33,540 went i didn't take any any other tablets 484 00:21:38,060 --> 00:21:36,390 medication i did a lot of reading on 485 00:21:41,260 --> 00:21:38,070 that any products and for multi 486 00:21:43,850 --> 00:21:41,270 understand the simple concept of it is 487 00:21:48,380 --> 00:21:43,860 your blood has negative and positive 488 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:48,390 ions i ons and when you apply a magnet 489 00:21:53,570 --> 00:21:51,090 to that it attracts those negatives and 490 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:53,580 positive positive ions and it increases 491 00:21:57,380 --> 00:21:55,770 your circulation you've been reading 492 00:21:59,690 --> 00:21:57,390 their website haven't you jack because 493 00:22:02,810 --> 00:21:59,700 that's the best of of nothing and 494 00:22:05,660 --> 00:22:02,820 basically everyone knows that when you 495 00:22:08,420 --> 00:22:05,670 have an increased circulation be through 496 00:22:11,060 --> 00:22:08,430 exercise or whatever when you increase 497 00:22:13,010 --> 00:22:11,070 your circulation that's what does the 498 00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:13,020 fixing up jack what do you mean by 499 00:22:18,260 --> 00:22:15,720 increase your circulation but well you 500 00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:18,270 just like when you exercise your 501 00:22:22,370 --> 00:22:19,830 circulation your blood circulation 502 00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:22,380 increases because your body I not matter 503 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:24,510 you've lost me a blood moons varsity 504 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:26,730 letters faster your blood moves faster 505 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:29,850 it's like they're your blood just like 506 00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:32,610 circles your system is like if you don't 507 00:22:36,530 --> 00:22:34,830 exercise it becomes like stag stagnate 508 00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:36,540 water but Jack what's this got to do 509 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:38,190 with pain relief you've sort of gone off 510 00:22:42,290 --> 00:22:40,290 track a little bit here well with pain 511 00:22:45,290 --> 00:22:42,300 relief if you increase the circulation 512 00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:45,300 in your body right pain relief just 513 00:22:49,010 --> 00:22:46,980 like for instance with joint serving is 514 00:22:51,980 --> 00:22:49,020 usually caused through inflammation 515 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:51,990 that's right if you get information a 516 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:54,570 certain part of the body the signs it 517 00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:56,850 gives you is pain yes but Jack do you 518 00:22:59,180 --> 00:22:58,290 understand how the inflammation process 519 00:23:01,310 --> 00:22:59,190 works you 520 00:23:04,730 --> 00:23:01,320 can't flush it away if you increase your 521 00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:04,740 blood flow because specific types of 522 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:06,750 cells are actually recruited to the site 523 00:23:10,790 --> 00:23:08,850 of inflammation as long as that 524 00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:10,800 inflammation remains and you can't kind 525 00:23:14,330 --> 00:23:12,720 of wash that out like you would go wash 526 00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:14,340 dishes or something it doesn't work like 527 00:23:19,670 --> 00:23:16,710 that right okay but but have you heard 528 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:19,680 of reflexology yes yes it doesn't work 529 00:23:25,610 --> 00:23:22,410 either doesn't work hang on i'm a 530 00:23:27,290 --> 00:23:25,620 qualifier reflexologist front oh okay 531 00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,300 Jack you're just the man we're looking 532 00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:29,280 for you can apply for the Australian 533 00:23:34,130 --> 00:23:31,860 skeptics $100,000 challenge if you can 534 00:23:36,620 --> 00:23:34,140 prove that reflexology work well I can 535 00:23:42,170 --> 00:23:36,630 prove it was my wife's did I married my 536 00:23:43,790 --> 00:23:42,180 wife through reflexology what halogen is 537 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:43,800 they dribble that doesn't prove it work 538 00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:45,690 did you read my face or something Joe 539 00:23:49,970 --> 00:23:47,220 how did you do that that's what happened 540 00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:49,980 a bit about 12 years ago we were all 541 00:23:55,490 --> 00:23:52,710 going to go out one night and I was with 542 00:23:57,380 --> 00:23:55,500 those four of us and she was she was 543 00:24:00,080 --> 00:23:57,390 there with a girlfriend and when we 544 00:24:01,790 --> 00:24:00,090 turned up to pick everyone up she was 545 00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:01,800 that she had a she had shock it's 546 00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:05,430 shocking scientists right and and one of 547 00:24:09,140 --> 00:24:06,870 the best results that i get with 548 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:09,150 reflexology with sinus problems right 549 00:24:14,090 --> 00:24:11,610 and she it was that bad she wasn't going 550 00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:14,100 to go out and i said look this and this 551 00:24:18,860 --> 00:24:16,320 might sound a bit weird but i can do 552 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:18,870 some points around your your toes all 553 00:24:23,540 --> 00:24:20,850 right your sinus points are in your toes 554 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:23,550 and i'll be just about guarantee you you 555 00:24:26,690 --> 00:24:25,290 will definitely get relief Jack why 556 00:24:28,370 --> 00:24:26,700 didn't you get her to go for a run and 557 00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:28,380 increase our circulation that would have 558 00:24:32,690 --> 00:24:30,270 worked i right that's what you've just 559 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:32,700 told us no no because with reflexology 560 00:24:39,140 --> 00:24:35,970 it works on your endings right in those 561 00:24:41,630 --> 00:24:39,150 nerve endings over the years they they 562 00:24:43,940 --> 00:24:41,640 get deposits of crystallization of 563 00:24:47,450 --> 00:24:43,950 toxins no they don't I don't know it's 564 00:24:50,150 --> 00:24:47,460 not you're wrong right okay listen 565 00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:50,160 listen time out both sides on I'm gonna 566 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:52,110 step in here is your judicata interject 567 00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:53,970 I can prove achieve okay jack that's 568 00:24:58,340 --> 00:24:55,260 exactly what I want you to do because 569 00:25:00,650 --> 00:24:58,350 these guys have a standing one hundred 570 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:00,660 thousand dollar bounty on anybody that 571 00:25:05,060 --> 00:25:02,850 can prove things that they reckon don't 572 00:25:08,030 --> 00:25:05,070 work really work now you're saying that 573 00:25:10,130 --> 00:25:08,040 you can prove refix reflux reflexology 574 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:10,140 actually works the Australian skeptics 575 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:11,530 have a one-hundred-thousand-dollar 576 00:25:15,210 --> 00:25:12,970 eyes to anybody who can demonstrate 577 00:25:17,250 --> 00:25:15,220 paranormal or supernatural powers under 578 00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:17,260 mutually agreed test conditions okay 579 00:25:21,270 --> 00:25:19,840 yeah here's your opportunity Jack I want 580 00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:21,280 to see you take the money jack i'm on 581 00:25:24,930 --> 00:25:23,200 your side right i want to see you take 582 00:25:30,060 --> 00:25:24,940 the money so i want you to go to their 583 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:30,070 website skeptics ske pti cs.com do you 584 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:32,770 write and check out their website you'll 585 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:34,330 find this this one hundred thousand 586 00:25:38,550 --> 00:25:36,370 dollar prize offer on there get in touch 587 00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:38,560 with the skeptics tell Richard get sent 588 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:40,000 him an email and time that you want to 589 00:25:42,210 --> 00:25:41,170 find out all about it because you want 590 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:42,220 to be a hundred thousand dollars richer 591 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:44,770 and Jack I just say good luck to you 592 00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:45,970 because if you believe in what you're 593 00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:47,920 talking about with reflexology and you 594 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:49,440 reckon you can prove that it works 595 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:52,210 nobody's your manager take it take it up 596 00:25:56,580 --> 00:25:53,890 for sure that guaranteed you could get 597 00:25:59,880 --> 00:25:56,590 10 people 15 people that's got problems 598 00:26:01,500 --> 00:25:59,890 a problem knee problems j- Jack go to 599 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:01,510 the website and let us know how you go 600 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:03,010 all right thank you come on your boat 601 00:26:05,670 --> 00:26:04,690 there we go you're good could be a 602 00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:05,680 hundred thousand dollars better off 603 00:26:09,030 --> 00:26:07,480 absolutely there again he might not be 604 00:26:16,790 --> 00:26:09,040 as well ten minutes to eleven got a 605 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:18,900 want to know how to live skeptically and 606 00:26:23,850 --> 00:26:21,610 still have friends well so do i join me 607 00:26:25,470 --> 00:26:23,860 for actually speaking a new podcast that 608 00:26:27,810 --> 00:26:25,480 explores the human side of skepticism 609 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:27,820 will set the science side and discuss 610 00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:29,650 familiar skeptical topics from an inner 611 00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:32,110 personal perspective along the way will 612 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:33,520 highlight specific social and 613 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:35,170 communication skills need it to promote 614 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:37,570 critical thinking scientific facts are 615 00:26:40,860 --> 00:26:39,490 only part of the equation what's take an 616 00:26:42,990 --> 00:26:40,870 extra step and learn how to share that 617 00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:43,000 knowledge effectively actually speaking 618 00:26:47,490 --> 00:26:45,220 a podcast that explores a human side of 619 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:47,500 skepticism critical thinking and the 620 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:48,970 skills we need to make it through the 621 00:26:58,290 --> 00:26:51,250 day visit actually speaking calm to 622 00:27:04,470 --> 00:26:58,300 learn more now it's time for dr. Rachel 623 00:27:06,090 --> 00:27:04,480 reports with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello 624 00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:06,100 listeners and welcome to dr. Richie 625 00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:08,830 reports well this week I'm reporting on 626 00:27:14,270 --> 00:27:11,200 a win for science skepticism and common 627 00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:14,280 sense in the House of Commons in the UK 628 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:16,870 now a few weeks back on the think tank 629 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:18,760 we were discussing the story of David 630 00:27:23,790 --> 00:27:22,090 try dainik who is a UK MP who spent 631 00:27:25,919 --> 00:27:23,800 approximately seven or eight hundred 632 00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:25,929 quid of taxpayers money on astrology 633 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:28,990 software now it turns out that David 634 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:30,730 rodenic believes in all kinds of woo 635 00:27:36,030 --> 00:27:33,250 including herbal medicine products 636 00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:36,040 complementary medicine food supplements 637 00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:38,080 dietary supplements and now it seems 638 00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:41,950 homeopathy in fact he loves homey up 639 00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:43,600 with you so much that yesterday he 640 00:27:49,620 --> 00:27:46,960 submitted three early day motions also 641 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:49,630 called edms to the House of Commons for 642 00:27:54,930 --> 00:27:51,970 consideration now for those non UK 643 00:27:56,580 --> 00:27:54,940 listeners idioms are basically motions 644 00:27:59,580 --> 00:27:56,590 that are tabled by members of parliament 645 00:28:02,430 --> 00:27:59,590 for debate on an early day or a nun 646 00:28:04,620 --> 00:28:02,440 specific date in the future so idioms 647 00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:04,630 can cover all manner of subjects that 648 00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:06,640 the MP thinks Parliament should be made 649 00:28:12,060 --> 00:28:09,790 aware of and possibly debate so 650 00:28:14,430 --> 00:28:12,070 sometimes they address serious matters 651 00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,440 such as climate change or they can 652 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:16,480 address trivial events such as the 653 00:28:24,210 --> 00:28:19,570 pigeon bombs EDM which was tabled in the 654 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:24,220 2003 2004 session of UK Parliament now 655 00:28:27,580 --> 00:28:26,410 this EDM was concerned with a disclosure 656 00:28:30,159 --> 00:28:27,590 by mi5 657 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:30,169 I've that it had proposed using pigeons 658 00:28:36,159 --> 00:28:33,250 as flying bombs during World War two and 659 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:36,169 according to Wikipedia the motion 660 00:28:42,269 --> 00:28:38,690 condemned the proposal describing humans 661 00:28:45,669 --> 00:28:42,279 as quote obscene perverted cruel 662 00:28:47,980 --> 00:28:45,679 uncivilized and lethal and proposed that 663 00:28:50,289 --> 00:28:47,990 the house quote looks forward to the day 664 00:28:52,899 --> 00:28:50,299 when the inevitable asteroid slams into 665 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:52,909 the earth and wipes them out thus giving 666 00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:54,970 nature the opportunity to start again 667 00:29:02,500 --> 00:28:57,890 now this is Wikipedia but I really hope 668 00:29:04,539 --> 00:29:02,510 that that's accurate so ATMs remain open 669 00:29:06,639 --> 00:29:04,549 for signatures for the duration of a 670 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:06,649 parliamentary session but are rarely 671 00:29:12,909 --> 00:29:10,250 ever signed by all MPs and few make it 672 00:29:15,549 --> 00:29:12,919 to the floor for debate so let's go back 673 00:29:16,990 --> 00:29:15,559 to David enok while he apparently 674 00:29:19,210 --> 00:29:17,000 decided he had found some new 675 00:29:21,460 --> 00:29:19,220 information about homeopathy which he 676 00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:21,470 wanted to share with the house so he 677 00:29:28,330 --> 00:29:24,220 tabled three atms concerning homeopathy 678 00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:28,340 the first one was EDM 285 and claimed 679 00:29:33,850 --> 00:29:29,990 that homeopathy was an effective 680 00:29:35,980 --> 00:29:33,860 treatment for breast cancer EDM 286 681 00:29:39,250 --> 00:29:35,990 concerned homeopathy as a treatment for 682 00:29:42,669 --> 00:29:39,260 depression and EDM 287 concerned 683 00:29:44,620 --> 00:29:42,679 insomnia try genic also objected to the 684 00:29:46,570 --> 00:29:44,630 British Medical Association's recent 685 00:29:48,940 --> 00:29:46,580 public statements were they called for 686 00:29:51,519 --> 00:29:48,950 no further commissioning of nor funding 687 00:29:54,190 --> 00:29:51,529 for homeopathic remedies on the National 688 00:29:55,630 --> 00:29:54,200 Health Service this was famously 689 00:29:57,399 --> 00:29:55,640 reported as the British Medical 690 00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:57,409 Association calling homeopathy 691 00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:00,559 witchcraft so in support of his evidence 692 00:30:04,930 --> 00:30:03,049 tradin excited three published 693 00:30:08,380 --> 00:30:04,940 peer-reviewed studies as evidence for 694 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:08,390 his claims now one of these I've talked 695 00:30:12,820 --> 00:30:10,610 about on the show before but I happen to 696 00:30:14,289 --> 00:30:12,830 know it very well since I spent the 697 00:30:17,230 --> 00:30:14,299 better part of a Saturday back in 698 00:30:19,180 --> 00:30:17,240 February debunking the entire paper the 699 00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:19,190 reason I did this was because Richard 700 00:30:23,710 --> 00:30:21,110 Saunders had received an email alert 701 00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:23,720 from homeopathy plus with the headline 702 00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:26,270 screaming homeopathy as good as 703 00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:28,070 chemotherapy for breast cancer and 704 00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:30,559 non-toxic which is a pretty 705 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:32,960 extraordinary claim for special magic 706 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:35,690 water and also likely to be complete 707 00:30:40,510 --> 00:30:37,490 bollocks well I won't keep you in 708 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:40,520 suspense it is complete bollocks so let 709 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:41,570 me read to you the 710 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:43,490 EDM submitted by David rodenic in 711 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:47,450 response to this paper quote that this 712 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:49,250 house welcomes the study published in 713 00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:51,050 the international journal of oncology 714 00:30:55,660 --> 00:30:53,840 2010 februari which revealed that 715 00:30:58,450 --> 00:30:55,670 homeopathic remedies have a beneficial 716 00:31:00,340 --> 00:30:58,460 effect on breast cancer cells notes that 717 00:31:02,620 --> 00:31:00,350 researchers at the University of Texas 718 00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:02,630 conducted an in vitro study to determine 719 00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:04,880 whether products prescribed by a clinic 720 00:31:10,270 --> 00:31:07,100 in India have any effect on breast 721 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:10,280 cancer cell lines further notes that the 722 00:31:15,310 --> 00:31:12,530 researchers studied for ultra diluted 723 00:31:17,410 --> 00:31:15,320 remedies believes that the findings 724 00:31:19,450 --> 00:31:17,420 demonstrate biological activity of these 725 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:19,460 natural products when present at ultra 726 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:22,010 diluted doses and calls for further 727 00:31:27,310 --> 00:31:25,370 research in this important area while I 728 00:31:29,380 --> 00:31:27,320 guess Trudy neck like homeopathy plus 729 00:31:31,030 --> 00:31:29,390 either didn't read the entire paper or 730 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:31,040 didn't understand how to interpret the 731 00:31:36,550 --> 00:31:33,050 scientific literature because this ain't 732 00:31:39,010 --> 00:31:36,560 what I gleaned from this paper once dr. 733 00:31:41,050 --> 00:31:39,020 Evan Harris had my blog and others to 734 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:41,060 banking this paper in his sticky fingers 735 00:31:46,930 --> 00:31:44,210 dr. Julian Huppert got straight on to 736 00:31:50,170 --> 00:31:46,940 composing a rebuttal and it is a joy to 737 00:31:52,090 --> 00:31:50,180 read but before I reveal it to you let's 738 00:31:53,890 --> 00:31:52,100 hear a little of a debate between dr. 739 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:53,900 Simon Singh and David tried enik on 740 00:31:59,890 --> 00:31:57,050 radio this is from at Costa on 741 00:32:02,380 --> 00:31:59,900 soundcloud and has what he calls a BS 742 00:32:05,010 --> 00:32:02,390 buzzer added to emphasize went regenexx 743 00:32:07,870 --> 00:32:05,020 says something wrong or stupid 744 00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:07,880 homeopathic remedies will not work and 745 00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:10,310 should not be funded by the NHS that was 746 00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:11,900 the conclusion of a parliamentary select 747 00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:13,310 committee recently but it's being 748 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:15,200 challenged in the House of Commons by 749 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:17,330 the Conservative MP David Trudy Nick who 750 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:19,610 has called for a debate on the possible 751 00:32:24,010 --> 00:32:21,650 benefits of homeopathy what has he 752 00:32:25,690 --> 00:32:24,020 discovered while he's on the line as and 753 00:32:27,930 --> 00:32:25,700 with me as the office I missing who's 754 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:27,940 been been critical of the whole 755 00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:30,290 homeopathic industry as us the right 756 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:32,480 word and what's your evidence that it 757 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:35,090 might work David to dainik good morning 758 00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:37,490 John what I've highlighted three news 759 00:32:40,990 --> 00:32:39,470 studies one from the University of Texas 760 00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:41,000 that shows that homeopathy is effect 761 00:32:47,530 --> 00:32:45,140 effective for cancer patients Brazil 762 00:32:49,180 --> 00:32:47,540 which shows that it helps with moderate 763 00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:49,190 to severe depression 764 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:51,440 durban university of technology that 765 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:54,050 shows that it's effective in treating 766 00:33:00,580 --> 00:32:57,530 primary insomnia double-blind 767 00:33:03,220 --> 00:33:00,590 placebo-controlled trials I think that 768 00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:03,230 Simon Singh would call for Simon Singh 769 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:04,880 you've called that exactly that sort of 770 00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:07,610 testing oh yes I had a very very quick 771 00:33:12,730 --> 00:33:08,990 look at some of these studies last night 772 00:33:15,130 --> 00:33:12,740 and the the one of them for example has 773 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:15,140 no statistics in the paper that there's 774 00:33:20,020 --> 00:33:17,530 nothing there to show that the result is 775 00:33:22,090 --> 00:33:20,030 serious which was that and that was the 776 00:33:25,060 --> 00:33:22,100 first 11 men from Texas University and 777 00:33:26,860 --> 00:33:25,070 secondly the paper the control which is 778 00:33:28,810 --> 00:33:26,870 supposed to be ineffective seems to have 779 00:33:30,610 --> 00:33:28,820 some effects so the research has seemed 780 00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:30,620 to have a control which is not adequate 781 00:33:34,060 --> 00:33:32,000 or don't know what you mean brother oh 782 00:33:35,620 --> 00:33:34,070 so so an inert substance so you're 783 00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:35,630 comparing within an earth sciences 784 00:33:38,260 --> 00:33:36,710 homeopathy they are better than the 785 00:33:41,290 --> 00:33:38,270 inert substance you might be a bow 786 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:41,300 and although exactly so so so I don't 787 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:44,090 think these are very good studies even 788 00:33:47,470 --> 00:33:45,410 then what you have to do is look in it 789 00:33:49,690 --> 00:33:47,480 in the rag there been over 200 clinical 790 00:33:52,390 --> 00:33:49,700 trials and over all the weight of 791 00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:52,400 evidence shows after 200 years after 200 792 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:54,260 clinical trials the homeopathy is 793 00:33:58,690 --> 00:33:56,570 ineffective I I would change my mind in 794 00:34:00,190 --> 00:33:58,700 an instant if the evidence was there but 795 00:34:01,930 --> 00:34:00,200 the evidence is event and this is really 796 00:34:05,170 --> 00:34:01,940 this becomes slightly dangerous when 797 00:34:06,460 --> 00:34:05,180 when when when mr. trilling raises his 798 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:06,470 issues because at the moment in 799 00:34:11,050 --> 00:34:08,450 Australia there's a coroner's inquest 800 00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:11,060 into a woman who had cancer and who went 801 00:34:15,310 --> 00:34:13,270 down a homeopathic route entirely at 802 00:34:17,770 --> 00:34:15,320 what was a completely treatable 803 00:34:19,690 --> 00:34:17,780 condition and died and i think when we 804 00:34:21,670 --> 00:34:19,700 start tempting people toward the idea 805 00:34:23,980 --> 00:34:21,680 that homeopathy country cancerous cells 806 00:34:25,450 --> 00:34:23,990 and so on where it's a very dangerous 807 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:25,460 road to go down july i think mr. 808 00:34:29,550 --> 00:34:26,930 trinnock really should be a bit more 809 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:29,560 responsible when he puts down easy DMS 810 00:34:35,470 --> 00:34:33,170 so now let's see what became of EDM 285 811 00:34:40,570 --> 00:34:35,480 once the harris and hubert had gone to 812 00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:40,580 town on it EDM 285 a1 now reads like 813 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:45,020 this line to leave out from 403 to end 814 00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:48,050 and insert as an example of the failure 815 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:50,000 of adequate scientific peer review 816 00:34:53,890 --> 00:34:51,890 because the paper provides no 817 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:53,900 statistical analysis to support any 818 00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:56,090 conclusion indicates that the 819 00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:58,490 experimental control eighty-seven 820 00:35:02,890 --> 00:35:00,800 percent alcohol solution was itself 821 00:35:04,990 --> 00:35:02,900 toxic to the cell cultures 822 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:05,000 did not illustrate or explain the 823 00:35:08,829 --> 00:35:06,890 different chromatographic profiles of 824 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:08,839 the solvent and the test substances and 825 00:35:14,339 --> 00:35:11,450 does not provide sufficient data to 826 00:35:17,019 --> 00:35:14,349 allow proper evaluation of the study 827 00:35:19,900 --> 00:35:17,029 notes that the lead author has retired 828 00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:19,910 and runs a homeopathy website which 829 00:35:23,730 --> 00:35:22,160 falsely claims that homeopathy is as 830 00:35:27,339 --> 00:35:23,740 effective as a conventional chemotherapy 831 00:35:29,289 --> 00:35:27,349 agent in treating breast cancer further 832 00:35:31,769 --> 00:35:29,299 notes that one of the authors Allison 833 00:35:34,359 --> 00:35:31,779 Paulus has publicly disowned the paper 834 00:35:36,339 --> 00:35:34,369 regrets that isolated poor quality 835 00:35:38,410 --> 00:35:36,349 studies are cited by proponents of 836 00:35:41,470 --> 00:35:38,420 homeopathy to endorse dangerous and 837 00:35:43,359 --> 00:35:41,480 exploitative cancer curing claims in the 838 00:35:46,140 --> 00:35:43,369 face of overwhelming weight of 839 00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:46,150 scientific evidence against them and 840 00:35:49,690 --> 00:35:48,230 agrees with the conclusions of the 841 00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:49,700 Science and Technology Select 842 00:35:54,190 --> 00:35:51,440 Committee's fourth report session 843 00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:54,200 evidence check homeopathy that puts 844 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:55,700 patients through pointless further 845 00:36:00,010 --> 00:35:57,890 clinical trials and the spending of 846 00:36:06,579 --> 00:36:00,020 scarce public sector funds on homeopathy 847 00:36:08,890 --> 00:36:06,589 research cannot be justified Wow so the 848 00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:08,900 comment about Allison Paulus listed as 849 00:36:12,970 --> 00:36:10,640 an author on the study publicly 850 00:36:14,980 --> 00:36:12,980 disowning this paper is derived from a 851 00:36:17,859 --> 00:36:14,990 comment she left on my blog where she 852 00:36:20,109 --> 00:36:17,869 stated that quote as an unintended 853 00:36:23,980 --> 00:36:20,119 co-author on this study I feel obligated 854 00:36:27,010 --> 00:36:23,990 to respond Allison went on to say quote 855 00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:27,020 I asked not to be included because I did 856 00:36:32,260 --> 00:36:29,569 not think it was a sound study and I 857 00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:32,270 believe this study demonstrated changes 858 00:36:36,220 --> 00:36:34,700 in alcohol percentages on cells rather 859 00:36:40,690 --> 00:36:36,230 than the efficacy of homeopathic 860 00:36:42,940 --> 00:36:40,700 medicine so the amendments to the edms 861 00:36:45,099 --> 00:36:42,950 constitute a marvelous result and a 862 00:36:48,460 --> 00:36:45,109 testament to the dedication of dr. Evan 863 00:36:50,349 --> 00:36:48,470 Harris and dr. Julian Huppert the fact 864 00:36:51,819 --> 00:36:50,359 that this message got out so quickly is 865 00:36:54,730 --> 00:36:51,829 also a credit to the power of the 866 00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:54,740 blogosphere and the Twitterverse and in 867 00:36:57,849 --> 00:36:56,480 fact this was how I originally got my 868 00:37:00,460 --> 00:36:57,859 hands on the full text of this article 869 00:37:03,490 --> 00:37:00,470 by tweeting for someone to source it for 870 00:37:06,430 --> 00:37:03,500 me and thank you to our xtal Dave or 871 00:37:08,349 --> 00:37:06,440 crystal Dave but unfortunately David 872 00:37:09,849 --> 00:37:08,359 Trudeau nick is not the only one who has 873 00:37:12,460 --> 00:37:09,859 jumped to conclusions about the findings 874 00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:12,470 of this paper I already mentioned 875 00:37:16,750 --> 00:37:14,510 homeopathy plus making a giant leap in 876 00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:16,760 logic from cells being treated in Cole 877 00:37:22,180 --> 00:37:18,830 to homeopathy is better than 878 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:22,190 chemotherapy for cancer so many others 879 00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:23,810 have picked up this meme and run with it 880 00:37:28,780 --> 00:37:25,910 despite the fact that not even the paper 881 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:28,790 itself makes this claim the only 882 00:37:32,860 --> 00:37:30,890 reference to a common cancer drug 883 00:37:36,670 --> 00:37:32,870 appears buried in the discussion and 884 00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:36,680 states quote interestingly the cytotoxic 885 00:37:40,330 --> 00:37:37,910 effect of two of the remedies 886 00:37:42,670 --> 00:37:40,340 investigated in this study appeared 887 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:42,680 similar to the activity of taxol the 888 00:37:47,050 --> 00:37:44,810 most commonly used chemotherapeutic drug 889 00:37:49,570 --> 00:37:47,060 for breast cancer when it was tested in 890 00:37:52,210 --> 00:37:49,580 to carcinoma cell lines investigated in 891 00:37:54,670 --> 00:37:52,220 this study in parallel experiments this 892 00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:54,680 is followed by in brackets data not 893 00:38:02,080 --> 00:37:58,690 shown here that listeners data not shown 894 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:02,090 so interestingly homeopathy sympathizers 895 00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:05,090 can go from data not shown to homeopathy 896 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:07,910 can cure cancer but then I guess facts 897 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:09,770 evidence and science never really did 898 00:38:14,530 --> 00:38:13,010 interest them that much for example it 899 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:14,540 seems that David Trudeau neck has 900 00:38:18,490 --> 00:38:16,490 already forgotten about the findings of 901 00:38:20,590 --> 00:38:18,500 the House of Commons Science and 902 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:20,600 Technology Committee in February this 903 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:22,850 year following the evidence check for 904 00:38:27,220 --> 00:38:25,130 homeopathy where the recommendation was 905 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:27,230 that the National Health Service should 906 00:38:31,690 --> 00:38:30,170 cease funding of homeopathy there should 907 00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:31,700 be no further clinical trials of 908 00:38:36,430 --> 00:38:33,920 homeopathy evidence shows homeopathy 909 00:38:38,140 --> 00:38:36,440 doesn't work explanations for why 910 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:38,150 homeopathy works are scientifically 911 00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:40,610 implausible and the committee viewed 912 00:38:47,140 --> 00:38:44,480 homeopathy as placebo and so I'll end 913 00:38:50,700 --> 00:38:47,150 today's report with a tweet by at Paul 914 00:38:53,770 --> 00:38:50,710 and UK 2010 reflecting on today's events 915 00:38:55,780 --> 00:38:53,780 he said how to get your scientific 916 00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:55,790 papers peer reviewed by experts in the 917 00:39:02,590 --> 00:38:58,400 field get David training to cite them in 918 00:39:04,690 --> 00:39:02,600 an ATM so very true so if you wish to 919 00:39:06,910 --> 00:39:04,700 read the full blog post or the full text 920 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:06,920 of the paper please head to my blog at 921 00:39:28,530 --> 00:39:10,130 skeptics book calm and until next time 922 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:31,330 thank you very much for listening to the 923 00:39:37,420 --> 00:39:34,490 skeptic zone now we have one more show 924 00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:37,430 to put out before we head off to Las 925 00:39:42,580 --> 00:39:40,310 Vegas that's Iran cigar Joe and Ben 926 00:39:45,070 --> 00:39:42,590 amoud dr. HC and myself heading off to 927 00:39:46,780 --> 00:39:45,080 Las Vegas when we're in Las Vegas don't 928 00:39:49,810 --> 00:39:46,790 worry there will be a special skeptic 929 00:39:52,089 --> 00:39:49,820 zone going out regardless and when we 930 00:39:54,370 --> 00:39:52,099 come back we're going to have weeks of 931 00:39:57,310 --> 00:39:54,380 fantastic interviews of all the famous 932 00:39:59,740 --> 00:39:57,320 skeptics we can bump into so for now 933 00:40:04,720 --> 00:39:59,750 this is Richard Saunders signing off 934 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:04,730 from Sydney Australia you've been 935 00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:07,010 listening to the skeptic zone visit our 936 00:40:14,020 --> 00:40:11,599 website at wwc a petting zoo TV for 937 00:40:17,090 --> 00:40:14,030 comments contacts and extra video 938 00:40:17,100 --> 00:40:21,400 it 939 00:40:21,410 --> 00:40:29,009 check